International Opinion

Thirty years on, why ‘The Satanic Verses’ remains so controversial

Samajwadi Party workers protest against writer Salman Rushdie at Chatrapati Shivaji International Airport in Mumbai, India, on Jan. 24, 2008. The Indian-born British writer has visited Bombay, several times and his trips have always attracted protests from Muslim groups. (AP Photo/Rajesh Nirgude)

One of the most controversial books in recent literary history, Salman Rushdie’s “The Satanic Verses,” was published three decades ago this month and almost immediately set off angry demonstrations all over the world, some of them violent.

A year later, in 1989, Iran’s supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini, issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, ordering Muslims to kill the author. Born in India to a Muslim family, but by then a British citizen living in the U.K., Rushdie was forced to go into protective hiding for the greater part of a decade.

Angry demonstrators protest against the book in 1989. Photo by Robert Croma/Creative Commons

What was – and still is – behind this outrage?

The controversy

The book, “Satanic Verses,” goes to the heart of Muslim religious beliefs when Rushdie, in dream sequences, challenges and sometimes seems to mock some of its most sensitive tenets.

Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammed was visited by the angel Gibreel – Gabriel in English – who, over a 22 year period, recited God’s words to him. In turn, Muhammed repeated the words to his followers. These words were eventually written down and became the verses and chapters of the Quran.

Rushdie’s novel takes up these core beliefs. One of the main characters, Gibreel Farishta, has a series of dreams in which he becomes his namesake, the angel Gibreel. In these dreams, Gibreel encounters another central character in ways that echo Islam’s traditional account of the angel’s encounters with Muhammed.

Rushdie chooses a provocative name for Muhammed. The novel’s version of the Prophet is called Mahound – an alternative name for Muhammed sometimes used during the Middle Ages by Christians who considered him a devil.

In addition, Rushdie’s Mahound puts his own words into the angel Gibreel’s mouth and delivers edicts to his followers that conveniently bolster his self-serving purposes. Even though, in the book, Mahound’s fictional scribe, Salman the Persian, rejects the authenticity of his master’s recitations, he records them as if they were God’s.

British author Salman Rushdie in 2014. Photo by Luiz Munhoz/Creative Commons

In Rushdie’s book, Salman, for example, attributes certain actual passages in the Quran that place men “in charge of women” and give men the right to strike wives from whom they “fear arrogance,” to Mahound’s sexist views.

Through Mahound, Rushdie appears to cast doubt on the divine nature of the Quran.

Challenging religious texts?

For many Muslims, Rushdie, in his fictional retelling of the birth of Islam’s key events, implies that, rather than God, the Prophet Muhammed is himself the source of revealed truths.

In Rushdie’s defense, some scholars have argued that his “irreverent mockery” is intended to explore whether it is possible to separate fact from fiction. Literature expert Greg Rubinson points out that Gibreel is unable to decide what is real and what is a dream.

Since the publication of “The Satanic Verses,” Rushdie has argued that religious texts should be open to challenge. “Why can’t we debate Islam?” Rushdie said in a 2015 interview. “It is possible to respect individuals, to protect them from intolerance, while being skeptical about their ideas, even criticising them ferociously.”

This view, however, clashes with the view of those for whom the Quran is the literal word of God.

After Khomeini’s death, Iran’s government announced in 1998 that it would not carry out his fatwa or encourage others to do so. Rushdie now lives in the United States and makes regular public appearances.

Still, 30 years later, threats against his life persist. Although mass protests have stopped, the themes and questions raised in his novel remain hotly debated.The Conversation

(Myriam Renaud is Ph.D. candidate in Religious Thought and Ethics at the University of Chicago. The views expressed in this commentary do not necessarily represent those of Religion News Service.)

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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Myriam Renaud

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  • The themes remain “Hotly debated”, huh?
    Hmm, I haven’t heard anything hotly debated about Islam since the liberals began their love affair with anything islamic around a decade or so ago while hating anything to do with Christianity.

    Heck, whenever there’s an Islamic bombing or a muslim goes on a shooting rampage claiming bodies for his jihad now, the liberal media tries to blame Israel or the editor of the rag/chat show finds a way to tell us that Catholic priests have raped children.

    # I’m truly sick of muslims in left wing media making excuses for terrorism by saying that ‘all islamic anger is because the USA has intervened in their world’.
    Heck, Islam was in its blood thirsty civil war some 350 years before the crusades ever began!

    # I’m sick of liberals wanting more muslim immigrants in the West while wanting fewer Christian immigrants.

    Are the Christians planting bombs at concerts or hijacking planes ? Oh, what’s that you say you lying liberal piece of crap- something about the “IRA” and their sectarian murders. Well, dear deluded reddit/twitter fan, Islam’s texts inspired some 126 murders last week alone (Sept 15-21, 2018) and in August the death toll from ‘peaceful’ Islam was 868. The last time the idiotic sectarian IRA killed a person was back in 2016 so please, please you dumb-ass liberals, stop equating Islam and Christianity as equally vicious for they are clearly not.

    And to you liberal TV producers who think it’s wise to put muslims on TV who blame the West for Islam’s ongoing violence, well, that’s gonna backfire on you one of these days. A scorpion is a scorpion, not an obedient trained pet. You may find this verse from the quran to sit well with you but don’t imagine you are any better than the Christian or the Jew in the eyes of the followers of mohammed:

    ‘O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.

    They are friends one to another.

    He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them.

    Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.’ (5:51)

    For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

  • “Today, I would be accused of Islamophobia and racism. People would say I had attacked a cultural minority. … Instead of responding to attacks against freedom of expression, voices were raised [against Charlie Hebdo] to decry blasphemy and to propose compromise with terrorism. There is no blasphemy in a democracy … You French use the ‘Daesh’ label, which neutralizes things, while worldwide it is called ISIS movement, Islamic State of Iraq and Syria”.
    – Salman Rushdie, 2016.

    Source: Michel Schneider, “Rushdie : ‘Un peu partout, la religion s’infiltre dans la politique'”, Le Point, August 25, 2016.

  • “It seems we have learned the wrong lessons … Instead of realising that we need to oppose … attacks on freedom of expression, we thought that we need to placate them with compromise and renunciation … [And so, to many people] the case of Charlie Hebdo [became all] about the alleged racism of the magazine against the Muslim minority. … I’ve since had the feeling that, if the attacks against The Satanic Verses had taken place today, these people would not have defended me, and would have used the same arguments against me, accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority. … [To disprove] supposed ‘Islamophobia’ … why can’t we debate Islam? It is possible to respect individuals, to protect them from intolerance, while being sceptical about their ideas, even criticising them ferociously.”
    – Salman Rushdie, 2015.

    Source: Philippe Coste, “Salman Rushdie: ‘Combattre l’extrémisme n’est pas combattre l’islam'”, L’Express, July 22, 2015.

  • Those who seek and achieve power then need to retain it against the next crop of wanna-be leaders.

    To achieve power one must offer “more” than those in power. To retain power one must offer “more” than those who seek to displace one.

    Hence polarity becomes more extreme.

    Religion (of whatever flavour) offers the ideal means to increase polarity since economics etc. will, over time, provide an undeniable assessment of reality to compare against claims. Religion has cornered the market in unaccountability. It’s test is deferred until after death – and that moves it out of the zone which permits failure.

    More dangerously – it means that there is no automatic brake on the extremism that has, and will continue to be, promulgated.

    I suggest that all that can be done is to educate humanity as much as possible about reality whilst providing basic economic security to remove the pressure for survival which is so ruthlessly exploited by religious extremists. If we want to protect ourselves the best way to do so is to marginalise the extremists by removing the levers they can pull to motivate others. That means ensuring that everyone has access to the basics of a decent life-style such as shelter, protection, health care, access to clean water, evidence-based education etc. etc..

  • “In the past weeks I have seen important figures in the liberal culture employing the excuses of tolerance and pluralism in order to euphemize the intolerant and whitewash the enemies of pluralism. The response to the persecution of Salman Rushdie, and the use of gangster ‘contract’ methods against him by the pious, has been a moment of education to fix in the mind. … The issue [here] is the right of Rushdie to make literary use of holy writ and the right of others, including Moslems, to be an audience for such writing.”
    – Christopher Hitchens, “Minority Report”, The Nation, March 13, 1989.

  • “Religion has cornered the market in unaccountability. Its test is deferred until after death”

    Exactly!!!

  • That is a matter of belief, and is dependant upon the validity of the religion – a validity which is rationally highly suspect.

    BlockedByBobx2

  • “Since the liberals began their love affair with anything islamic around a decade or so ago while hating anything to do with Christianity.”

    And interesting fiction used to justify hateful and counterproductive rhetoric and actions. But the truth is its liberal’s love affair with religious freedom, rule of law and democratic institutions which you are really railing against. It is never a defense of given religious beliefs per se as it is defense of all religious belief and acknowledging that sectarian prejudice ENABLES terrorism, not fights it.

    “whenever there’s an Islamic bombing or a muslim goes on a shooting rampage claiming bodies for his jihad now, the liberal media tries to blame Israel or the editor of the rag/chat show finds a way to tell us that Catholic priests have raped children.”

    Don’t see that either. But I do see a reaction to counterproductive hateful types trying to blame 1.6 billion people collectively for the acts of a terrorist. Essentially enabling terrorists by adopting their propaganda whole cloth and attacking the chief useful resource against radicalization (hint hint, it is not Islamaphobes)

    “Heck, Islam was in its blood thirsty civil war some 350 years before the crusades ever began!”

    So it has a lot in common with Christianity which was at war with various sects since splits formed. Of course such lazy nonsense misses the fact that Islamicist terrorism is incredibly recent in nature. Most of it forming around 1979 with the Iranian Revolution and Saudi reaction. Prior to 1991, both governments and terrorists of the region were secular nationalists, or radicals. (ex Afghanistan was Marxist before the Soviet invasion)

    “I’m sick of liberals wanting more muslim immigrants in the West while wanting fewer Christian immigrants.”

    Again a fictional assertion. I find nobody who makes such claims. However the majority of REFUGEES are coming from the Middle East thanks to the chain of events/wars in the region. Lets be honest here, you are a bigot who objects to any immigrants of color. You object to Christian immigrants as well. Who the hell are you kidding?

    “Are the Christians planting bombs at concerts or hijacking planes ?”

    Yup. Domestic terrorism, white supremacists mostly, is the most common form we see in the US.

    ” Islam’s texts inspired some 126 murders last week alone ”

    Thank you ISIS spokesperson. You are doing an adequate job of helping their recruiting efforts.

  • Salman Rushdie, The Satanic Verses, a fictional account, seems to blend reality with the dream world. Threats against his life persist. In the case of Jesus Christ, he encountered strong opposition to his message in Luke 4:16-30. He repeatedly sidestepped the threats and continued to proclaim the good news of salvation from sins. Jesus often engaged in scholarly dialog with those who disagreed with him. So … Salman Rushdie, and those taking Ayatollah Khomeini’s place these days, Jesus offers you salvation from sins and receiving Jesus into your life! You have heard this a million times, and now you are hearing it again.

  • But Wayne, how, other than in faith, do you know that the book you quote from is anything more than a fictional account within the historical novel genre?

  • There’s a gospel message in here somewhere, I think:

    “[Muslims’] threats against [Salman Rushdie’s] life persist [just as] Jesus Christ … [had] encountered [the Jews’] strong opposition to his message [and] repeatedly sidestepped the[ir] threats”.

    The lead-in gospel message being, “Rushdie as a Jesus-type” and/or “Jesus as a Rushdie-type”?

    Hmmm, INTERESTING.

  • Hi HpO! Hope you are doing as awesome as I am! Did I sound a bit convoluted? Well, unintentional. I am encouraging Salman Rushdie and outraged Muslims to faith in Jesus Christ. I was also attempting to contrast SR’s book as fictional with the Bible as historical. I guess I had my tongue wrapped around my eye teeth so I couldn’t see what I was saying. Thanks for correcting me. Have an incredibly awesome day!

  • Oh wow, some leftist ignorance from Spuddie- what a shock.

    I think it’s best to show readers how leftwits manipulate data. Of course, if you go back to 1776 and tally up terrorist acts against the British government, you’ll prove your point but that’s puerile- only a true leftard would recite such nonsense.

    From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1960-1969, 1 of the 16 terrorist attacks in the USA was carried out by a Muslim.

    From 1900-1959, 0 of 20 terrorist attacks were carried out Muslims.

    Now, we know that the left doesn’t have the brainpower to crunch numbers but can you possibly exercise that little peanut in your dinosaur head to see a pattern there spuddie? Squeeze spuddie squeeze.

    Well let me just share what the pattern is (because you obviously need help):

    The number of Islamic attacks carried out on US soil is now greater than all other sources or groups combined.

    So back in the 1960’s the biggest perps of terrorist acts in the USA were leftist radicals but their attack numbers have been positively dwarfed by Islamists now, when the number of attacks are compared.

    See spuddie, 23 attacks of the 45 attacks so far in the 2010’s is more than half! See, half of 45 would be 22.5 spuddie. Oh, isn’t math fun spuddie.

    Yeah, it isn’t what colbert/samantha b like to make mention of but meh, they are fools who can’t see the trend in the data which is probably because they’ve become accustomed to pretending viewer numbers don’t matter as well!

  • Hi Dog! Hope you are doing awesome today! Yes, I have faith in the Bible. I have faith in Jesus Christ who saved me from my many sins. Your question is provocative and insightful. You make me think through things more carefully. The genealogies in the Bible suggest to me progressive history as in a family tree. The numerous geographical cities in the Bible suggest to me great cultural diversity. The numerous kings in the Bible suggest to me approximate eras. The extensive disagreements and arguments in the Bible suggest to me the inclusion of strong differences among the people. The teachings and miracles of prophets were in the presence of stubborn skeptics, some of whom refused to change their minds even as the events were happening. Generation after generation, writing about their experiences, slowly became the increasingly larger collection of writings we now know as the Bible. I know many people see these things differently, but that is my conclusion for those reasons. Good to hear from you again, Dog! Until next time, have an awesome day!

  • Ok, so your response is to just fling poo and rehash nonsense which does nothing to support your points. Your assessment of what “liberals” believe and react to in such situations was entirely fiction and you didn’t even bother to try to show why any of it needed to be taken seriously. it was clear you were full of it, so pivot to a new direction. Conceding your points to make new silly, unsubstantiated nonsense. If you are going to quote stats which you want to be taken at face value provide a link. If you aren’t willing to do that, then I have no compelling reason to care or consider it as a statement of facts. Who are you quoting here?

    You go into a gish gallop whose conclusion is entirely in line with supporting ISIS and its aims. Demonize an entire religion of 1.6 billion people. Try to justify attacking our own liberties and values out of fear. Make it easier for terrorists to recruit and build networks.

    Hateful ignorant chuckleheads like you are not fighting against terrorism, you are collaborating with them. You are just too dumb to realize it.

    Get back to me when you can form an argument which does not involve lying about what opponents claim or say. Until then you are completely useless. Nothing more than a liar who relies on ad hominem and straw man burning.

  • Ha, you got nothing so you fart more leftist nonsense.

    # Those terrorist attack stat’s are available from multiple sources- you’re just too lazy to look for yourself because it would mean your beliefs are plain wrong. Easier to cling to your evil lie, just like all the other islamic apologist leftwits do.

    Facts don’t lie, spuddie the brainless does though.

  • So you cut and pasted from a hate site and are too embarrassed to say so. How unoriginal. Like we haven’t all seen that before? Give me a break.

    First you feel the need to lie about the positions of others, now you lie about material which supposedly gave your nonsense a thin sheen of support.

    People like you are the best tools terrorists have available in the free world. You work for free, you carry out their agenda and you are too fanatical and dimwitted to realize what you are doing.

    Facts may not lie, but you have done so several times already. Nor have you even posted a fact.

    Balking at posting a link to an obvious cut and paste tells me I am talking to a l1ar. No debate is Mr essay there.

  • Ha ha, my info is from a “hate site” now huh. WRONG again spuddie.

    Those stat’s are public domain, available from multiple sources.

    Face it spuddie, you are a gormless leftwit who lacks the basic brainpower to undertake research. Why, for someone of your intellect, I bet wiping your own ars_ is a challenge.

    # Now for all other readers, I’m betting you have a bit more between the ears than spuddie does so, you could simply enter the search ‘terrorist attack timeline’ into the google search engine and find oh, about 4 separate lists of terror attacks that contain the very same data.

  • i don’t need to hear your whining about not being taken seriously when you are far too lazy and dishonest to present yourself in a credible manner.

    The fact that you are still a l1ar who felt the need to make up crap about people whose views you disagree with. Someone who mistakes flinging poo for credible support of an argument.

    Fools like you are nothing more than unpaid supporting stooges for terrorists.

    Here is a stat for you, American Muslims have turned in and uncovered more terrorist plots than all the illegal ethnic profiling and domestic spying on people based on their religion.
    https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists/

    Unlike a l1ar such as yourself, I bother to back up my claims when I cite outside sources.

  • Oh, spuddie, those actions of muslims turning evil muslims in doesn’t undo the successful terrorism stats carried out by muslims.

    The facts don’t lie- muslims are committing more terrorist acts in the USA than anyone else.

    You’re arguing that a group obeys the rules when that just isn’t correct. You need to recognize that the trend is showing increased attacks, regardless of the actions of those muslims doing good things in reporting their hate-filled comrades.

    I’m sure there were muslims in the USA picking up rubbish and making US streets cleaner in the days before September 11th but that doesn’t undo the fact that nearly 3,000 died when muslims flew planes…

    # Not all muslims are terrorists in 2018 but most terrorist attacks are now from muslims.

    The one factor that defines muslim terrorists is islam.

    The best research now seeks to quantify the numbers and the attitudes of muslims in the West for if attitudes among muslims are in fact becoming more anti-West, then the free world is going to need something much sterner than monitoring communications.

    The research on the attitudes of muslims in the UK from a few years back is horrifying- islamic terrorism in the UK will increase purely because most muslims there won’t report their muslim friends for planning terrorist attacks. It’s no wonder the Brexit vote happened when the deluded EU got to choose who is allowed in and who isn’t.

  • Still whining about stats that you have not bothered to cite in a credible manner. How pathetic.

    Facts don’t lie, but you do and have. You have not actually brought up any. It’s telling that you don’t want me to examine the sources of your claims.

    “The research on the attitudes of muslims in the UK…”

    Let me guess, made by the neo nazi UKIP party. You are trying to reference nonsense hate groups but are too spineless to link to that too. GTHO of here with that lame garbage.

    So according to the only outside source honestly cited here so fat your notion that all Muslims are evil terrorists is upended by facts showing that they clearly are not and that as a group are effective against terrorism.

    So US troops ousted ISIS from Iraq all by themselves? Um no, not even close. The “boots on the ground” were the very people you attack. The largest numbers of victims of ISIS were also Muslim. People !who become the refugees you will le about and demonize later on.

    Fools like you don’t really oppose terrorism, you demand things which enable them. You fools demand things like attacks on freedom of religion, turning away refugees, domestic spying based on ethnic profiling, ethnic cleansing, attacks on our system of due process and rule of law. All of these make it easier for terrorists to recruit and develop support network.

    Democracy is not “a suicide pact” as you bigoted m0rons claim, it is a shield and sword here. It is what we protect from terrorism. It creates the methods and tools which combat it.

    You are nothing more than a spineless l1ar who unwittingly supports terrorists.

  • Read em and laugh.

    You have one actual source which doesn’t actually support your point and two self-published wingnuts. You didn’t rely on any of these for your prior post, nor cited their content in any appreciable manner. You simply tried to look up applicable websites after the fact.
    You did not read those sites and tally up all the individual incidents used in your little “stats”.

    Can you be a more obvious l1ar?

    The wikipedia one is the only source which could be taken at face value and lo and behold, it includes terrorist acts by every group/individual recorded in the US. It doesn’t help you one bit. If we were to take such incidents in aggregate we would find that crazy white christian folk are the most common terrorists in the US (Such lists generally don’t even mention endemic domestic terrorist incidents of white supremacists in the Jim Crow South, or acts against family planning clinics/doctors)

    Lets just put all the cards on the table here, you dishonest bigoted fool.

    It is impossible for ANYONE to make a rational, factually supportable, sane argument consisting of “_____ religion is evil, therefore all of its followers must be treated as the enemy”.

    It makes no difference whether you fill in the blanks with Islam or any other faith. The argument is DOA.

    You are going to make false claims about the beliefs of 1.6 billion people, proof text their scripture (really just copy and paste from hate sites without context) and engage in collective responsibility arguments (every act by a member of a minority group reflects on the entire group, but if its a white Christian male, they are “lone wolves”). You are going to attack the structure of a free and democratic society out of phony concerns for “safety”. You are going to repeat terrorist claims/propaganda at face value. You are going to make cheap excuses when reality doesn’t match your screeds.

    In general you are going to be using the same exact tactics every sectarian bigot uses when describing the religion they despise. Neo-Nazis do the same against Jews, SDA do so against Catholics, Evangelicals against Mormon.

    You are not someone “in the know”. Just someone repeating nonsense arguments, using phony supports and hysterical screeds. Your spiel is well worn. Your playbook is very obvious.

    But most offensive, is how you flat out lie about the positions of those who disagree with your views.

    More proof you are a terrorist enabler, both you and ISIS oppose pluralistic heterogenous societies
    https://warisboring.com/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone/

    The “Gray Zone” is the group’s name for any place where there is pluralism and multiculturalism. For Daesh’s apocalyptic ideology, a pluralistic and inclusive society is repulsive and must be destroyed. To further that goal, the group seeks to widen the differences which exist, by definition, in a pluralistic community.

    In other words, it’s a wedge strategy. And once the Islamic State can drive enough of a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims, it can more easily radicalize and recruit.

  • I provide the stats but you know better, because you’re a liberal. Crawl back to the septic tank spuddie for you’ve got nothing, you gormless worm.

    ” If we were to take such incidents in aggregate we would find that crazy white christian folk are the most common terrorists in the US ”

    You now claim some aggregate crap- because that passes for truth in your demented hole.

    It’s people like you making excuses for Islam that are problem with society.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-29/koran-434-islam-domestic-violence/10112916

  • You didn’t provide stats, you cut and pasted from a source you were clearly afraid to cite and then lied about them. So you gave links to sites you obviously didn’t read or use. You are full of crap. A terrorist enabling stooge.

    “It’s people like you making excuses for Islam that are problem with society.”

    No liar, I have said nothing about Islam or its beliefs. Nor ever intend to. I go after people who enable terrorism and attack our way of life out of fear, bigotry and ignorance.

    I don’t ever have to give a crap what you think of a given religion, what you think are their professed beliefs, nor ever engage in collective responsibility bullcrap.

    I couldn’t care less what you claim about the beliefs of 1.6 billion Muslims. I couldn’t care less about your religious beliefs either. I never have to.

    We live in a society with religious freedom. One is free to believe anything they want from their religion. They just can’t harm others in service of it or expect to give their beliefs color of law. Ideas fools like you actually support, provided its Christians doing the harm or making their beliefs law.

    Fools like yourself bleat about “Creeping Sharia” because you have no regard for free exercise of religion and the separation of church and state to begin with. So you don’t get that we avoid Islamic theocracy by avoiding ALL theocracy. You don’t fight terrorism by acting like one, nor believing their propaganda. You attack the things which are most useful to address the issue. Bigotry overtaking common sense and sane actions.

    BTW the UK has a hugely unsuccessful history of dealing with terrorism. Efforts at ramping up repression have backfired on them since the 18th Century. 🙂

  • If you couldn’t care less then why did you try and claim that muslims weren’t committing most terrorist acts in the USA nowadays? They clearly are and you’ve got absolutely nothing to refute that fact.

    Seems to me that your complacency toward both islamic terrorism and islamic domestic violence has finally caught up with your liberal lies. Do you really believe hubris will win you respect now?

    This isn’t the fabian society or a student union now, time to grow up little boy.

  • Because it is not only untrue, but it serves the purpose of terrorists. Following their propaganda at face value and spreading it in order to hobble effective methods against them.

    You haven’t established a thing so far other then your capacity to l!e and rely on a fairly well worn playbook of nonsense sectarian bigotry tropes. I don’t need to refute what has not been shown to be true in the first place.

    What you call complacency is actually vigilance against counter productive nonsense which helps terrorists, not attack them. You are their stooge, not their enemy.

    No, this isn’t the Fabian society nor is it a Breitbart thread. I am sure your bullcrap goes over well with fat less critical, more ignorant bigoted RWNJs than it does to those informed on the subject.

  • From Sir Salman Rushdie’s book “Satanic Verses”, p. 376, paperback issue – for those 1 billion Muslims to read as they are forbidden to purchase or read said book:

    One of the passages that prompted the crazy Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a fatwa against Sir Rushdie:
    Mahound = Mohammed
    Gibreel = Gabriel
    “The faithful lived by lawlessness, but in those years Mahound – or should one say the Archangel Gibreel? – should one say Al-Lah? – became obsessed by law.

    Amid the palm-trees of the oasis Gibreel appeared to the Prophet and found himself spouting rules, rules, rules, until the faithful could scarcely bear the prospect of any more revelation, Salman said, rules about every damn thing, if a man farts let him turn his face to the wind, a rule about which hand to use for the purpose of cleaning one’s behind.

    It was as if no aspect of human existence was to be left unregulated, free. The revelation – the recitation- told the faithful how much to eat, how deeply they should sleep, and which sexual positions had received divine sanction, so that they leamed that sodomy and the missionary position were approved of by the archangel, whereas the forbidden postures included all those in which the female was on top.

    Gibreel further listed the permitted and forbidden subjects of conversation, and earmarked the parts of the body which could not be scratched no matter how unbearably they might itch.

    He vetoed the consumption of prawns, those bizarre other-worldly creatures which no member of the faithful had ever seen, and required animals to be killed slowly, by bleeding, so that by experiencing their deaths to the full they might arrive at an understanding of the meaning of their lives, for it is only at the moment of death that living creatures understand that life has been real, and not a sort of dream.

    And Gibreel the archangel specified the manner in which a man should be buried, and how his property should be divided, so that Salman the Persian got to wondering what manner of God this was that sounded so much like a businessman.

    This was when he had the idea that destroyed his faith, because he recalled that of course Mahound himself had been a businessman, and a damned successful one at that, a person to whom organization and rules came naturally, so how excessively convenient it was that he should have come up with such a very businesslike archangel, who handed down the management decisions of this highly corporate, if noncorporeal, God.”

  • So you’re a vigilante who opposes the truth that muslims commit more terrorist acts than any other group in the USA .

    “What you call complacency is actually vigilance against counter productive nonsense”

    Yep, that’s hubris right there.

  • You are still a lying sack of crap who can’t say anything beyond a well defined script, I already called you out on. How pathetic.

    You have not proffered any facts, so I never needed to address your obvious cut and paste. You even obviously lied about your source.

    I can’t help it if you are too stupid to see you are enabling terrorists

    You are simply flinging poo here. My guess is you are used to working in an echo chamber like Breitbart or Townhall. Try your luck there.

    ISIS stooge.

  • So you’re saying that I provided links to stats and you provided nothing other than hubris. Hmm, you have an amazing ability to talk about yourself spuddie. Have you thought about a career in hollywood as I’m sure there are dimwits there who’ll stroke your frail ego.

    As for me well, I prefer stat’s:

    From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

    Yeah those stat’s are from wiki.

    # spuddies stat’s though are from his imagination.

  • You provided links to sources you obviously didn’t cite to previously nor were the source of your cut and paste. I do not believe for a moment you tallied up each of those listed incidents to get the numbers you provided. Either that or you are extremely lazy and didn’t bother to read the sites you gave me the links to.

    You come off as a lying sack of crap either way.

    I don’t know whether you are truly stupid enough to think that would work or are just insulting my intelligence here.

    Its telling that
    “From 2010- to present, 23”, “Yeah those stat’s are from wiki.”

    No they aren’t. The wiki link you provided was a list of incidents. Not a tally. You are lying to me yet again.

    ” I prefer stat’s:”

    No you don’t. You prefer cutting and pasting from sites you are too afraid to link to. Because we both know they aren’t actual reliable or credible sources.

    You have not done one thing honest credible people do when trying to make a point with stats.

    Because I guess when you are a stooge for terrorists, facts are not as important as spewing propaganda repeatedly.

  • “You prefer cutting and pasting from sites you are too afraid to link to.
    Because we both know they aren’t actual reliable or credible sources”

    ha ha ha, those stats I’ve pasted there are from wikipedia.

    I merely counted the muslim attacks but you can’t accept those very stats because they reveal you have had nothing but a failed argument all along.

  • No, you are obviously lying to cover up how ham fisted your prior efforts were. Of course you didn’t.

    You really appear new at this sort of thing. Nobody would believe they story.

    But I guess since you have to lie about my positions, what is more ridiculous untruth to the pile.

    Man, your responses are getting more desperate here.

  • Not at all. I was inspired by you putting Rushdie & our Lord side by side, thinking that may open up a bit of a window into the gospel for Rushdie’s followers and admirers. I didn’t think about that potential until I read your comment. And oh yeah, I forgot to upvote you “4 days ago”. Done it now.

  • So, no figures from you again.

    Does your unsubstantiated view pass as anything more than the equivalent of crap, elsewhere ?

    See, *I’ve quoted figures from wiki and shown a trend in the data* that is clearly discerned to all except spuddie
    .
    Now, don’t get me wrong readers- I like being morally and intellectually superior to spuddie in every way but really, spuddie truly can’t cite any stat’s because he has absolutely none to offer?

    That’s just embarrassing for spuddie- all he has is his personal echo chamber.

  • Still whining about getting caught in an obvious lie? Funny. Your stories are getting lamer and lamer. Time for you to cut your losses and move on.

    Your ISIS supporting efforts have gotten boring. I guess you are too used to the uncritical echo chambers of wingnut media. Where people are more likely not to see what kind of lying fool you are.

    See you next time Terrorist Stooge.

  • From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on
    US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al
    Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

    Yeah those stat’s are from wiki. Spuddie got nothing but his own stale breath.

  • You keep cutting and pasting without bothering to really cite the source you used. No you didn’t tally them from your link. Nobody can believe such an obvious lie.

    Repeating your nonsense without a link just means you were caught fibbing and can’t back out of it due to ego.

    You lost. Stop moaning about it and move on.

  • So, you’re saying you’ve got nothing but the empty sound of your own voice in your little echo chamber?

    Aww, that’s so sad spuddie. Readers would have thought there was more to you than just, well, flatulence but they’re going to be so disappointed now for you have nothing, nothing at all.

    Perhaps you can console yourself with the idea that ‘less is more’, right?

    ha ha ha

    You need to go live in Pakistan with your best friends spuddie.

  • Loser, still can’t stand the fact he got caught obviously lying.

    It didn’t help that you started the thread by lying about what “the left”s position is on the subject.

    Then you get pwned by everyone else who has responded to you and demonstrated what kind of ignorant fool you are.

    Now you continue to respond to me, even though I am far beyond any point of even pretending to take you seriously. You are boring me to death with your lame mendacity.

    You are a terrorist stooge, doing what ISIS wants because you are just too stupid.
    https://warisboring.com/the-islamic-states-assault-on-the-gray-zone/
    “once the Islamic State can drive enough of a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims, it can more easily radicalize and recruit.

    Daesh is at war with the West, but it’s also at war with other Muslims who reject its theology — which is most of them. ”

    Now run along, lying loser stooge. I am sure there are threads on Breitbart, Townhall or Daily Caller which would take you more seriously with your bullcrap than I will.

  • From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on
    US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al
    Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

    # please note, spuddie has no research to back up his assertions whilst I in comparison have provided stats from wiki. spuddie is the very definition of a lying liberal who justifies the wife beating that is widely accepted by muslims worldwide. He has nothing but the vapid liberal views he espouses and therefore, that makes him a gormless turd of a web troll.

  • Still no link to a source for your claim. Why are you so embarrassed to show your work in an honest manner?

    One week later and still nothing to show for where you got your “stats” from.

    Because lying is in your nature.

  • So, umm, are you denying those figures are from wiki now ?

    I mean, it’s obvious you’ve got nothing but your opinions and they truly aren’t worth a thing, so, if you’ve got nothing at all, what is your deluded mind clinging to?

    # Not all muslims are terrorists but in 2018 most terrorist attacks and attempted attacks in the USA are carried out by muslims.

    No amount of spuddie speak can undo those facts- you need to provide your sources, not your lying liberal beliefs.

  • Because you didn’t cite wiki. You lied obviously. You did not tally the incidents. You are trying to cover for using something else. You have done nothing but lie here. You’re done. You have nothing to say. No link to your actual source = full of crap.

  • From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on
    US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al
    Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

    Spuddie denies these facts because they don’t fit with his world view. The stat’s are right there and yet he now even denies they came from wiki.

    What a foolish little boy he is.

  • If you weren’t a lying sack of crap, you would just post a link to the exact source of the cut and paste.

    How pathetic.

  • You still got nothing huh?

    Gosh, hate to be you. Prisoner of your own hubris while I produce qualitative research that drowns you in the rat cage of your own making.

    # Not all muslims are terrorists but in 2018 most terrorist attacks and attempted attacks in the USA are carried out by muslims

  • Still a lying sack of crap I see. No link to a cut and paste = phony stats.

    Poor pathetic Alex. Terrorist stooge.

  • So, no research or stat’s AGAIN from spuddie the useless.

    Tacit approval to domestic violence found in Islamic verses does not make you interesting you know- it actually makes you an apologist fool.

    I show the stat’s from wiki and spuddie has nothing but his amazing opinion to defeat the facts:

    From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on
    US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al
    Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

  • A week and change in and you are still a lying c0ward. Pathetic.

    Lying about my position here as well is just plain ridiculous. I trust your ability to quote Islamic scripture accurately on par with a Neo nazi’s ability to quote the Talmud. You have more in common with your views and tactics with neo nazis than anyone defending the American way of life.

    We live in a nation with religious freedom. I do anyway. You are probably posting from Russia at this point.

    I don’t have to care what is in any religion’s scripture. Nobody can force me to care. The first amendment guarantees free exercise of religion within the bounds that you can’t harm others in service of your faith. It also means no religious dogma can ever have color of law.

    The problem you have is you already hate religious freedom. You pretend it gives you power to ignore laws and harm people in service of your faith. You strike me as the kind of scumbag who wants special privilege to discriminate for Jesus. You are no better than ISIS and share their disdain for a free society of many faiths.

    It is embarrassing that another religion can be used to adopt the same tactics against you. So you attack that religion.

    If you valued a free and democratic society you would have already gone away a while ago. But you don’t. You are nothing but a terrorist stooge.

  • Now, anyone can check these figures for themselves as they are available on wiki:

    From 2010- to present, 23 of the 45 terrorist attacks carried out on
    US soil were performed by muslims or people acting on ISIS/ISIL’s/Al
    Qaeda instruction.

    From 2000 to 2009, 13 of the 28 terrorist attacks on US soil were committed by muslims or those following ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda.

    1990-1999, 6 of the 24 terrorist attacks carried out in the USA were committed by Muslims or those inspired by al qaeda.
    From 1980- 1989, 3 of the 12 terror attacks in the USA were carried out by Muslims.
    From 1970-1979, 2 of the 16 terrorist attacks on US soil were carried out by Muslims.

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